A forum dedicated to Games Workshop Age of Sigmar Alliance of Death, Legions of Nagash, Nighthaunt, Flesh Eater Courts, Soulblight and Deathrattle. Vampire Counts (8ed) - Free download as PDF File (.pdf), Text File (.txt) or read online for free. Vampire Counts 8th edition Army Book.
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Apologies for the delay with this update, been steamrolling my way through the Lizardmen book these last weeks, and as such Vampire Counts was a bit delayed in the update department. I have been going through your comments and have done the following adjustments to the book:. Added bookmarks to the PDF, so you can more easily find whatever section you are looking for.
I think that one of the issues of the list still is ho compariatively weak the Strigoi are represented in comparison to the other Bloodlines Mathias.It is also a bit strange that they have access to more lores of magic than the Von Carstein & Lahmians. It would seem a bit more natural if they were on par with Blood Dragons in that regard. I suggest removing Lore of Shadows.I realize the contradiction of telling you they are too weak and then asking for removal of one lore, but I think they need to be more 'beasts' and less wizards.-Corpse Cart zombies are still Ws 1, S 2. I don't know if you read my comments so I'll post again, with some amendments.-Since Vampires on Monsters use the toughness and wounds of their mount, the Vampiric special rule should get an amendment to say that Vampires mounted on a Monster don't benefit from forcing opponents to re-roll successful To Wound rolls and The Red Thirst shouldn't help the Mount recover either.
However, the undead nature of the mount does mean that the model can recover wounds with Curse of Undeath.-Wight Kings are more the equivalent of a Tomb Herald than Tomb Prince so I think they should be Leadership 8.-Peasant Levy are redundant with all the better tarpits that Vampire Counts have such as Zombies and Skeleton Warriors. Total War Warhammer has Sylvanian Crossbowmen/Handgunners so they would fill a niche that the Vampire Counts lack in (ranged combat) You could make them WS2 BS3, Ld5, sorta like an evil counterpart to Bretonnian Longbowmen. It's also stated in the Tomb Kings book that the Skeleton automatons used by Vampire Counts lack the intellect for ranged combat so I don't think you should give the Vampire Counts ranged capabilities in the form of Skeletons.
The Sylvanian ranged units would be a Special choice I think.-I still think the Asp Bow should be a Lahmian only magic item for Lahmian Vampires and Vampire Ladies.-The fact that Soul Reapers grants Magical Attacks to Hexwraiths is redundant when they already have it due to being Ethereal.-The bloodline have been mixed considerably so I think several players might represent a Vampire from one bloodline that counts as a Vampire from another. You could give support for this by making Mannfred have the statline of a Necrarch and Konrad have the statline of a Blood Dragon. Mannfred and Konrad are brother, one physically frail but magically powerful and one physically strong but magically weak, an evil counterpart to Tyrion and Teclis. Having Mannfred use the statline of the physically weak (relatively speaking) Necrarch bloodline and Konrad use the statline of the physically strong Blood Dragon bloodline could highlight this relationship.-I think you should bring back Mannfred's hero version. Konrad should also get a Lord version since he ruled the Von Carstein bloodline for a time.-Heinrich was restored to his full glory by the Dark Gods so I'd give him the statline of a Sorcerer Lord (WS5, I5, A3). Remove the two additional attacks granted by the Chaos Tomb Blade.-Walach should have the options for a Hellsteed or Abyssal Terror in case players want him to fly but aren't playing in a game with enough points for a Zombie Dragon.-Liche Lords should have all the Mount options that Master Necromancers have. Maybe Master Necromancers and Liche Lords should be able to ride Mortis Engines as well since those are directed by a Corpsemaster and they can already replace Corpsemasters on Corpse Carts.-If Lahmian Handmaidens wear Light Armor than Lahmian Vampires and Vampire Ladies should be able to wear it as well.-Lahmian and Von Carstein heroes and lords are BS5, perhaps give them ranged weapons to make use of that.
Longbows for Lahmians (and an option for their Handmaidens), Crossbows or Handguns for Von Carsteins.-Coven Thrones are too expensive a mount for a Lahmian Vampire and if Blood Dragon Vampires can ride Abyssal Steeds then Necrarch and Von Carstein Vampires should be able to as well.-Cairn Wraiths riding a Skeletal Steed should gain Soul Reapers and Soulstriders. You added the option for a Skeletal Steed for them so that a Hero could go with the Hexwraiths right?
Roland:-That would complicate things a lot and you'd not realy get your points worth like other armies if you paid points for a mount (unless you were a wizard), as you'd loose the re-roll etc. It is no different than other combined profile rules. You can argue it is not very realistic, but that kind of goes for the whole combined profile idea. It is a convenience thing for games and resolves the needing unmounted models in addition to the monster mounted one etc.-Wight Kings being LD 8 is not unreasonable, I agree.
It seems like the Tomb Heralds etc are more 'living' than Wight Kings in many ways in the lore.-I agree with the Sylvanians being tactically pretty meaningless, but making the army a missile army is not the way to go either I think. Yes in Total Wars Campaign, they have Crossbows/Handguns available, but likely this will not be featured in the more balanced multiplayer battles mode (and for good reason). It is also justified in a campaign setting, as by the time you unlock these abilities, you likely already own large portions of the Empire. That said, I completely agree that the Levy needs something to make them meaningful tactically speaking. I also agree with the Skeletal ranged unit, both from a strategic army book perspective and from a lore perspective.-Disagree with the Lahmian bow being moved. It might as well not be included then.-The bloodline statline notion on special characters is a bad idea and not justified.-A Vampire Lord is a vampire that has strong blood and that survived for ages to become even stronger.
Konrad was never that just because he briefly ruled Sylvania. Mannfred's hero veriosn is not needed. There are enough Von Carstein special characters already.-Again, Heinrich Kemmler is NOT a Chaos Sorcerer.-Tha argument for more steeds for Walach can be made for ANY special character in the game. Not a valid argment.-I like the idea of a Liche Lord being able to ride a Mortis Engine.
Seems fitting.-I agree regarding Light Armour for Lahmians. I know MAthias had a bit of a spece issue though.-No Longbow missie weapon unit of vampires. It is not justified in the lore, nor would you invest in the points to make such good fighters into archers instead anyway.
If you are quick on your feet and have S5, you're not going to buy S3 Bows. Not even remotely cost-efficient.-Abyssal Steeds are more laboratory type experiments that they stitch together etc, so it fits the necrarchs very well.
Not so much the others.-The Soul Reaper & Soulstriders idea has some merit to it. Well, by opinions are for the most part the same as Rune's, but I will go through them anyway.- That overcomplicates things, the whole idea of the combined profil is to make monsters work the same way as MC or Ca in 8th ed, so the rules of the rider takes presidence, and all attacks are resolved against it.- I'm fine with that, Ld9 is really high when Grave Guard are Ld6.- The Peasant Levy is a better fit with the background as Sylvania does not have a standing army, as such they will be poorly trained. VC used to have missile troops back in 5th ed, and there are plenty of suitable models for them, so I'd rather tkeep them around. They are plenty weaker than the TK troops. As special units, they could probaly not see much play as you have more interesting units around then. Also, from a logical stand-point, why would a skeleton bowman be rarer than a swordsman? They are both average skeletons.- I don't want to have any bloodline specific items among the magic items.
It's much more useful for the Handmaidens than for a close combat oriented character.- Will fix.- Disagree, in that case the idea of bloodlines might not exist. Both Mannfred and Konrad and von Carsteins, so should have that as their base. As Rune said, Konrad became the ruler of Sylvania in a power vacuum, when Mannfred would have also been a Hero choice. Had Konred still been alive, he would have been a Lord by now.- Disagree; no other book has this for any characters, and the Mannfred that people care about is a Lord choice. Heck, as a hero, his only point of inclusion would be as part of Vlad's army in a campaign.- Disagree, Kemmler is not Chaos sorcerer in the traditional sense.
He was brought back by them yes, but he does not have any mark of Chaos, nor was he brought up in the Chaos wastes with the various mutations that would bring.- Walach either had a barded nightmare or a Zombie Dragon in the background. I'd rather be fine with skipping the Zombie Dragon as the Doomrider Powers has no effect then.- I'd be okay with letting the Liche Lord ride upon a Mortis Engine. I don't think the corpse cart is fitting them as the 'lords of undeath' (sitting a rotten wagon full of rotting corpses does nto feel like a very noble thing.).- I'm fine with that, was just a lack of space to include it.
I'm working on making that workable though.- None of them are described as using ranged weapons in the background, and it's pretty useless for such close combat oriented characters, kind of like giving a Chaos Lord a bow.- Well, they are not really Hexwraiths though. Adding a Cairn wraith does give you 3A though.- In pure mass, the Fell Bats are bigger. Due to their base size, they would also be pretty bad as you won't be able to get in as many models into combat as the harpies can. In the bestiary descriptions of the vampires it refers to Living hero Swains in the Lahmians and Lance formation knights in the Blood dragons. You could take these references out, but I would prefer if these were added to the rules. Phillip:Not everything mentioned in the lore is fitting for inclusion in an army book by default.
This goes for all the army books really. I thie Swains fall into this category tbh, at least as a unit.A Swain Hero doesn't really sound all theat tempting when you have access to Vampires either.Tbh, I'd much rather see a cheap Hero option be made around the 'igor' models (forgot the name) from Mordheim.Blood Knights are not by definition from Bretonnia. The oder of the Blood Knights is actually formerly an Empire Knightly order.
It is also very rarely a good idea to toake another army's special rule and co-opt it into another list.Missile Weapon cost went up to discourage everyone using their 25% Core allowance on missile type troops instead of traditional hordes of zombies and skeletons.I don't think a Necrarch Hero being able to ride an Abyssal Terror is out of place either tbh. Seems fitting.
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It is not too powerful a beast so.I agree on the Strigoi aspect. No Magic Weapon and Nor armour is very fitting to both models and the lore, but it leaves them severely underpowerd in comparison. They need other buffs to compensate.The Morngul change came from me bugging Mathias a bit about an Etheral Monster being able to use Stomps. That seemed very odd to me (particularly as it doesn't even have legs in this case). It wasn't Ethereal originally from Forge World. Personally I'm partial to the Etheral version of MAthias, but just wanted the Stomps removed to balance it out a little.
As mentioned in the post, new units like Swains might be included as a separate download. The VC list is pretty full of characters as is, I'd want to avoid making any bloodline-specific characters overall (not counting the vampires themselves ofc).- Overly complicated since that would require access to another army books. That text is really just there for flavour.- This to avoid missile spam, they are slightly overpriced to make you pay a premium for including them, meaning you might want 1-2 smaller units of archers, but probably not much more than that. Making them special units would not really do that much though, since there are so many other special units that are better.- That's fine by me.- Would Death be the least likely lore for them though? They are called the 'beasts in shadow', so those two lores would kinda make sense in that regard.- Fixed.- If you point them out, I'll be happy to fix them (at least throughout the rules section, there's a total of 1354 'he's in the entire book).
I've tried to change all 'he's to 'the Vampire', but it is possible I've missed some.- Mournguls are only really semi-ethereal. They appear in W:TW 2 as well in the new DLC, and they don't really have that see-through ghost-look to them. I accept that Swains and glooms and strigani will need an extension, the reason I raised the point on swains and Lance formation is that the bestiary description references them, would suggest those references also move to these 'extensions'.I accept the missile spam argument, but would like to suggest you could make missile armed skeletons not count towards core, like you have done for dire wolves and peasants. If we are concerned with missile spam here, why not for empire or anyone else with core archers, if so then the cost of a bow should rise across the board.The lors on a strigoi I am not really that bothered with, although beasts and shadow would be my first picks. What about my suggestion that the beasts magic lore attribute includes ghouls and crypt horrors?Appreciate the egalitarian editing.Mourguls, well they float, no legs. That to me says ethereal. They also don't look very stompy - so changing the rules to enable the stomp to make sense I think is the wrong move, I'd keep as ethereal and remove the stompThe dregs figures Rune - the mordheim 'igor models' would be fantastic super low level hero characters, but I think if other cool extras go to an extension - then these little fellas go that way too.To support Mathias's point on fell bats, the main issue here is base size.
We often appear to overlook base size when working out stat lines and costs but it is hugely important. Fell bats have a footprint four times that of a harpy. A cannon crew could be hit by 3 fell bats or 5 harpies. Note this base size issue causes huge problems for the AoS models squeezed into these books, Orc Brutes etc, point for point when you consider their frontage they are really weak.
I can remove those mentions, sure.- That might be a better solution, if a bit unorthodox.- That would require giving ghouls and crypt horrors another special rule just for that purpose, I don't think that's needed.- Appreciate the use of the word egalitarian!- They rather crawl forward with their long arms instead of floating, at least of the Vampire Coast trailer is anything to go. I think they 'hover' a bit, but they seem to be moving forward. In the art, they are not really ethereal looking either, instead having more of a grey flesh tone.- The Dregs are really just used as assistants for buying equipment and operating during the day in Mordheim, as far as their stats are considered, they are on par with peasant levies. I don't think they would fit as heroes for that reason.
I think the not-counting as Core is actually a good solution, as you will then have to compete with special and rare options in all but name, so you are not very likely to do a missile spam. The 'do not count as core' is already well established in the list due to all the mobile, weak chaff etc. It would stop people from choosing 25% missile units from core.Regarding the lore of skeletons and shooting, I can't recall exactly where It is stated atm, but somewhere it says that skeletons have sort of a limited range witchsight and hence wouldn't know where to aim after a certain distance. The TK list gets around this with their 'homing' missiles though.I like the lore of beast idea as well, but If implemented, I think it would be best implemented through the rulebook. With the changes to the rules, I wouldn't mind seeing a page with new and generic special rules being added.
Feral could be one. 'Intelligent Beast' could be another (that would allow units like dragon ogres to be affected by the bsb).
I might have some other ideas as well.The dreg models could be used to represent a more 'Igor' type hero, or alternatively an amysing special character.:-). I agree with The Rune, If having the lore of beasts affecting ghouls is desired then I'd change the main rule book to have the lore attribute affect 'Wild' units (rather than have the longwinded description it has now. Then give the mainrule book a rule called Wild which is basically a non rule but enables you to apply other rules by choice, a little like 'intelligent creature' would enable you to define which monsters / monstrous beasts could use the inspiring presence and hold your ground rules.Then give all beastmen the 'wild' rule, all warbeasts the wild rule and then add it to ghouls and crypt horrors.The Dreg Igor type models would be funny, yes a rubbish stat line but could have some nice bonus's to necromancers in range - a little like chaos familiars used to do in 4th ed. A necromancer could have an Igor type person, a Von Carstein have a black suited white glove wearing butler called Jeeves - come on - how cool would that be?I clearly need to see this vampire coast trailer. I was thinking about thie potential for an 'Igor' type special character yesterday.
I'm imagining him being some necromantic experiment from ages ago and that he has sort of remained in the shadows over the millenia (being rather unremarkable), helping an assisting Vampires and Necromancers in various ways (but obviously not receiving any credit) in return for perhaps vampiric blood to sustain his existence? I see some potential and room for such a special character at least, and it does fit with the warhammer setting sense of humor and parody etc.:-).
I would be very interested in how you are able to provide more colour on Lustria and the SouthLands so that we open up more opportunities to other races in the area, also how we ensure clear distinction between the Amazons and the Lizardmen.Oh and to do something about cold ones - there have been so many models for them along different concepts, currently the models the saurus ride are very different to those Dark elf knights ride, so are these the same creatures, or different, maybe related etc etc. I actually liked the regen solution better for the vampiric rule. The reroll to wound is just a very powerful conditional ward save in disguise. An attack from a regular S3 equals a free 'ward save' of 2+ against a T5 vampire. And then you can have armour saves and regular ward saves from items on top of that.with the regen you still had a chance to slay the vampire as the test was taken at the end of the turn. You could probably argue that you can use magic or fire to circumvent the reroll but I still thinks it is quite on the very OP side unless the vamps get a substantial cost increase for this bonus (And I play VC.) -Lemurus. I have tested the re-roll a fair bit for my LoN project (on Immortals) and yes, it is powerful againt regular troops etc, but when a Vampire character is killed in a game it is most often due to other characters with magic weapons, magic or miscast.
That killing Blows & Flaming Attacks are also equally effective gives most armies some tools to effectivly deal with them in any case.Also, most vampires are T4 by far, which means most armies that have access to S6 attacks with lances and great weapons still have effective tools to deal with them. 2+ to wound with a re-roll with a 'mundane' attack isn't OP by any means, especially if the lore is anything to go by.Regarding the cost of vampires, this is taken into account already. Look at the 8th ed Vampire that was a Wizard by defaul, then compare him with the Von Carstein Vampire that is not wizard by default and you see a significant increase in cost. The reason for this change is because Vampires, while good at healing, do not really heal as quick as Troll and the like without drinking Blood (which they still can). You were never likely to kill Vampires in 8th Ed with S3 attacks anyway, so this won't change much.
Re-roll to Wound seemed like a better way of representing their toughness without going overboard on just boosting their T value. Unlike Regen, this rule also won't be of help against magical attacks, and their cost has gone up considerable compared to 8th Ed. Finally, they also cannot heal themselves as easily as in 8th Ed, so these should more or less cancel each other out in the long run. From the Storm of Chaos Sylvania Army list I can add:- One unit of Grave Guard could upgrade to Drakenhof Guard and has access to Plate Armor.- Sylvanian Levy could be equipped with Shield, Light Armour and/or halberd(Empire Miniatures can be used). It's unit size start with 10.- The have a Von Carstein magic banner 'The Banner of Drakenhoff'(I think that's the name, my book is in Spanish): The Unit has Magic Resistance(2) and can double the number of Wolves summoned by the Invocation of Nehek(in this case combined with the Summon Creatures of the Night trait).
Regarding archer spam and general army composition limits. I have just tried to put together some nice fluffy small army lists - 6 armies 1000 pts each from each blood line plus a Necromancer led force. It has proved to be really difficult because of the restrictions.Firstly the 25% cap on heroes when there is a 35% cap on characters means I can't have a vampire and a wight at 1000 pts, would love that 35% to be applied to all Characters and Heroes and then Lords being 25% (which is taken from the 35%) means that at 1000pts having 280 pts of heroes is possible.Secondly with wolves, bats and peasants not counting towards core, if we then make Skeleton Archers not count either it forces certain picks especially for Lahmian and Blood Dragon forces that don't lean towards Ghouls and zombies much.
The game isn't ideally suited to make army lists of 1000 pts generally speaking, and that is not just an VC issue.:-)That said, Vampires have beome a fair bit more expensive and offcourse that eats into your percentages at such low pts games.Regarding the 35% hard cap on characters, I sort of agree tbh. It also severely limits special characters in regular games. I'm not advocating for turning the game back to being a new herohammer type game, but I'd rather see this being prevented through the game mechanics itself, rather than a harsh (for some armies) arbitrary point limit.When it comes to lore based armies, none of the vampiric bloodlines has any lore where they use skeleton archers as far as I can recall, so they should be sen more as a luxury I think. No missiel weapon has been the defining weakness of the VC list for ages, and now having a way around this is in and of itself a luxury that should not come easily.I don't think your army example is unrepresentative at all. It does however have lot of points sunk into its special choices, where I'd argue you'd have to reduce the overall cost to get access to more archers for balance reasons.:-).
Also one of the reasons why I personally started follow Warhammer armies projects was it got rid of the rules that didn't make sense. This is the type of rule that plagued 8th ed and will either cause confusion in new players that the undead dragon isn't affected by spells that in the Cannon affect Undead.Another Issue with this is when do you determine whether a unit is undead now? If half the unit is vampires and other half is undead what rule do you now use? When aren't they undead and when are they?
This type of rule slows the game down as players scan books and tends to sap the fun out of the game when that happens. Competitive setting or not, the game should be fun to play. I think adding Vampiric to those particular spells would make the most sense.The case of the Dragon might seem a bit strange, but it's really just the same if the Vampire was mounted on a skeletal steed - you always target the rider, and its the rider who control the mount, so all psychology rules apply to them.A spell that effects Undead units only affect the models that have the Undead special rule. In the case of Vanhel letting models move, I've not quite decided which would be the best course of action there; the unit can already march due to the presence of the wizard, so it would be better used at those Undead units that cannot march themselves.
Or if people prefer, I can just clarify that non-Undead models in the unit may also move with the unit when the spell is cast on them. Glen:As per right now, you don't get an additional dice against vampires.That said though, since these spells are light based in nature and vampires not being overly fond of sunlight etc, there is a good argument for the additional dice from a lore standpoint.One of the issues with Vampires not being Undead is offcourse them not being affected by things that particularly harms undead & demons, which I'm not a big fan of. Vampires should not count as Undead for ressurection/lore attribute purposes though, as that directly contradics the lore on vampires and removes their need for blood (or incentive to take some risks instead of hanging back with constant full health due to playing wizards). Raising back Blood Knights on the spot as if they were zombies was a bit OP and didn't make sense either.
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Vampire Counts are a fun army to play but boy are they hard to play. - An Army Book in the Warhammer Fantasy tabletop wargame, is a rules supplement containing information concerning a particular army, environment, or worldwide campaign.
Post a Comment. Saturday, January 14, 8th Ed. Vampire Counts Army Book Review. Possibly the worst cover art I've ever seen. Now, the moment you've all been waiting for To start things off, let's talk about the spcial rules and work our way down to special characters, lords and heroes This happens at the end of every combat phase.
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